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gemini sun scorpio moon

topic posted Thu, January 3, 2008 - 10:46 AM by  Unsubscribed
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  • haha.. well i ran into this from some random site and saved only this portion on my computer

    "One of the most difficult combinations of signs is Gemini and Scorpio, whether you find this within one person's chart - one of the sun, the other the ascendant - or between two charts. They personify the opposite poles of air and water beautifully. Scorpio is a water sign, and therefore highly subjective, with feeling-based responses. And the typical Scorpios will rarely put up with evasiveness, since his nature compels him to dig to the bottom of any issue to discover its hidden roots and motives. Gemini can't bear to be psychoanalyzed, largely because he's terrified of what he'll find underneath. Many Geminians are scornful of the whole realm of psychological exploration, because they have the gift of analyzing things and figure that once you've named a problem it'll go away quietly. Of course it doesn't since intellectual analysis isn't any help with feelings. Gemini will often be flippant when accused of some dark and convoluted motive. Or he'll make something up. Or he'll go cold, and simply not answer, or walk out. The truth is that he doesn't know, and what he doesn't know frightens him. Have compassion. Gemini often seeks help from intellectual maps and systems and structures in his attempts to find out what he really feels about things. "
    • I have a scorpio moon/gem sun

      that damn moon makes us soo touchy.... everything is felt intensely... and done with intensity... rather its love or hate... or any other range of emotion.. its always quite "intense"

      but i do agree.. this is FUn combination.. lol
      • Fun, Dangerous, lethal combination..... lol

        Oh god some days it feels like u just need to explode in rage. ... other days everythings sunshine!
        • That also sounds exactly like my Gem Sun, Scorp Moon friend.

          Intense Duality..


          Do you guys with that have trouble deciding on whether to go into a relationship with a girl? Does it make you feel like you cant commit and prefer to keep your options opened.

          Its just that my friend is like that - curious as to whether that is a Gem Sun and Scorp moon thing.,
          • Unsu...
             
            Never have trouble deciding to go into a relationship. Usually guns blazing.

            The real trouble comes when one of two things happen:

            Three months go by (always three) and the fun is gone, thats when I start looking for the exit.

            Its gone well past the three month mark and I start to realize that I have feelings and a connection with him so thats when I start scrambling madly for bricks and mortar to build my wall. Gotta protect those feelings!
            • Unsu...
               
              4 loves for 4 seasons... Very true
              • Unsu...
                 
                I think its eight loves for four seasons.

                Dont forget about the "bad" twin.

                :)
                • I too am Gemini Sun/Scorpio Moon and I am quite familiar with the three month flip. Of course I seem to have gotten over that as I have been married now for almost three years. However the emotional aspect of that three month thing does manifest in my relationship in other ways. my partner is a Taurus with a good handle on communicating emotions so she has helped with that aspect and she also supports my "bad" twin so that works pretty well :>) But I know what you mean when you say "God hates me"!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    hmm interesting.

                    How does your Taurean partner support your bad twin?
                    • Well in relation to emotion she has a lot of patience in letting my intellectual self converse with my emotional self (which apparently I do before answering questions) She also recognizes the fact that as people we are not meant to satisfy every one of each others needs. Knowing that (and learning to be comfortable with that) allows us to explore the areas we do satisfy each other more deeply. Really there is not a "good" side and a "bad" side, I am more like an octahedron when it comes to the facets of my being and she helps me get to know them better so they are all more fulfilled and thus I am less likely to feel the need to run screaming from commitment :>)
                      • Andy you said:

                        Re: gemini sun scorpio moonWed, January 16, 2008 - 1:51 PM
                        Well in relation to emotion she has a lot of patience in letting my intellectual self converse with my emotional self (which apparently I do before answering questions) She also recognizes the fact that as people we are not meant to satisfy every one of each others needs. Knowing that (and learning to be comfortable with that) allows us to explore the areas we do satisfy each other more deeply. Really there is not a "good" side and a "bad" side, I am more like an octahedron when it comes to the facets of my being and she helps me get to know them better so they are all more fulfilled and thus I am less likely to feel the need to run screaming from commitment :>)
                        reply to this post

                        Wow you guys sound like you are very mature abour your relationship good on you!
    • Stu
      Stu
      offline 3
      Being a Gem sun and moon scorp myself, I can only concur to most of the psycho astrological descriptions for Gem/Scorp. I suspect this setup , especially with difficult oppositions otherwise in the chart, could bring spectacular misfortune if handled in the wrong way.

      For this setup it is, in my opinion, important to remember that the perceived enemy is within., and further : There is a shitload of work required to accept that.

      Best way of explaining how : Have a look here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

      The only difference is that the socratic method is used in youre inner dialogues. Between Gemini and Scorpio.
  • haha. i am really confused by this combination. i know a Gemini Sun, Scorpio moon guy who doesn't seem like a Scorpio at all - I never see him look deeply inside himself and he can't stand a calm situation or introspection. Rather he is just VOLATILE.. he's always jumping up and down, freaking out, laughing too hard, dances like nut.. he's tons of fun, but I really didn't understand what was going on with him. Of course this may have to do with more in his chart... ie a huge Sag - Gemini opposition thing.. but nonetheless, that Scorpio Moon doesn't seem at home there. haha.
    • look at this chart from a diffrent point of view. via sidereal astrology ... see how that feels
      • can i just ask do geminis cheat a lot? because iv bean cheated on by a gem moon and im likin a gem sun at the moment. so do geminis spell trouble?
        dan
        • Unsu...
           
          ummm, hey, ok, can you define cheating?
          • lol ok .... dependin on what cheatin means to u, cheating to me is havin anything more thn a kiss to full on sex with som1 while u are courting som1 else
            • Unsu...
               
              So you are courting one girl but in the meantime banging another?

              Clarify courting...

              To me it means chasing after someone but have not sealed the deal yet.

              If my definition is correct, then no, its not cheating.
              • NO i wud never cheat im tlkin about gemini sun/moons
                • Unsu...
                   
                  No, I think Gem's are always perceived as cheaters due to the fact that they are very lively, chatty and a bit on the flirty side.
                  So basically all talk and no action, when it comes to cheatin

                  Friggin teases
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Geminis just have a problem with loyalty because they lose interest easily.
                    scorpios are the exact opposite.

                    i'm not sure which you're talking about BUT that does not go for all geminis.
                    like i'm a gemscorp and i've wanted to cheat, but never have.
                    • Unsu...
                       
                      that does not go for all geminis.

                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                      Absolutely true. My reply was tongue in cheek as you cannot 100% predict if someone is going to cheat based on their sign.

                      I have never cheated. I did tend to move on rather easily not because I lost interest, but because I failed to find anything interesting about them.

                      All fluff and no substance. It takes more than a pretty face and a nice car. Most of the time...
                    • Unsu...
                       
                      "Geminis just have a problem with loyalty because they lose interest easily."

                      losing interest is one thing, it means you want to move on to a different experience.

                      cheating is another thing. it means you have no respect for the other person. have no word, and that you prefer to lie and hide your true self.
                      it also, almost will never work, if the cheated party have a strong water emphasis in his/her chart. they will pick up on it.
  • Take heart. . .another site has a more optimistic outlook:

    "The Gemini Sun/Scorpio Moon combination produces an intellectual quickness and emotional depth which makes for an exceptionally forceful, magnetic and versatile character. These subjects are especially quick and active while being extremely receptive and tuned-in to those around them. ..... They can pursue any project with a vast amount of intensity, but never for a long period of time. If they are not careful, problems can arise with these Gemini subjects due to overindulgence and the tendency to have "too many fingers in too many pies."
    Gemini natives governed by a Scorpio Moon are not usually very careful by nature, but there is little they could not accomplish if they can manage to harness both the mental and emotional aspects of the personality, resulting in a pulling together toward the same constructive direction."

    Amen.

    This combination can be extremely valuable during difficult times. Think Mr. Hyde under the control of Dr. Jekyll's intellect!
    Or, perhaps, Dustin Hoffman in the movie "Straw Dogs"
    • Unsu...
       
      told you so
      • From the cafeastrology site, describing a singer/songwriter:

        "The Gemini Sun-Scorpio Moon persona is as intelligent as they come. Geminis always look for answers, although they often have a casual interest in the world around them. Add Lunar Scorpio, and you have a natural psychologist, bent on finding meaning and never afraid to rock the boat. The Gemini gift of communication and the Scorpio soul vision combine in Alanis eloquently (although the Gemini-Scorpio combination is an unusual one). This combination makes her both versatile and passionate at once. She can use words to paint pictures, she possesses a sharp wit, and being provocative comes naturally. This Sun-Moon combination is a fascinating one. The head and the heart send such different messages that she can be somewhat of a paradox. "
  • Yes, I think I may know a little of what you are probably feeling and/or thinking. I don't think I am in god's favor either, I'm aquarius with, you guessed it, scorpio moon...yucky combination...lol!
  • What are you talking about? Don't you love simultaneously being anxious and paranoid... socially-thriving and reserved? Gemini Rising, Scorpio Moon here. It definitely presents some challenges, but, honestly, I do like the variety and complexity provided by having very different signs at work.
  • Stu
    Stu
    offline 3
    Being a Gem sun and moon scorp myself, I can only concur to most of the psycho astrological descriptions for Gem/Scorp. I suspect this setup , especially with difficult oppositions otherwise in the chart, could bring spectacular misfortune if handled in the wrong way.

    For this setup it is, in my opinion, important to remember that the perceived enemy is within., and further : There is a shitload of work required to accept that.

    Best way of explaining how : Have a look here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

    The only difference is that the socratic method is used in youre inner dialogues. Between Gemini and Scorpio.
    • There are more dominant planets than Mercury around, but merc-folks gets blessed with swift & nimble pens, words & sentences kind of scuttles about like squirrels in heat from branch to branch. Many merc-folks don´t need any "bad honey", a "grammar-snort" often is more than sufficent. But somehow I don´t get merc-vibes from you "Stu", are you really sure you are a classic Twin? Do you consciously hold back that typical speedy, eloquent prose just to avoid attention from patronizing airbags?
      • I´m I a bit like Victor Pascow? He only wanted to help.
        • Stu
          Stu
          offline 3
          This one calls for an interesting thread. How much are you "cast" ( Or moulded) into youre own star/moon sign through self-deceiving and projecting attributes on others.

          This might be interesting Joakim, If you could lay youre attention seeking trolling aside. Mercurian paranoia is a parasite insect hoovering about . Nobody cares until it bites and than it is smeared into the ground by a shoe tip.








          • It´s hard to fool genuine mercurial folks with language, their radar for suspicious grammar is as vigilant as certain water-signs internal mechanism for detecting situations not quite right. Planet Mercury strives for veracity, combine this with a virgoan temperament & often a fearsome "Grand Inquisitor" is created, not just a humming investigator. So "Stu", words just come flying through the air for you to pick down, like ripe apples? You think written language is just like composing music; it´s more like playing a tune than placing letters?
            • Stu
              Stu
              offline 3
              I guess i´d ask what you mean by "suspicious grammar" but than I suddenly remember why debating with trolls,especially mercurian opportunist , is wasted time . Some mercurians cant withstand to drag others in the dirt and act as innocent bystanders or to cast themselves into the "grand Inquisitor" .

              .....But why am I wasting my time again ???










              • Dudes like the mentioned Grand Inquisitors are not folks one should try to hoodwink, they have a tendency to take such things rather personal. I was talking about things in general, what I was trying to say is that when mercurial folks (especially those with scorp paranoia running through their veins) sense clumsy attempts to pull wool over their eyes, they get pissed & spew forth invectives too gruesome to quote here. Never understimate mercurians, "Stu", they have almost supernatural gifts at their disposal when it comes to "penetrate" others just by reading their prose. The use of "syntax" reveal so much about a character; it´s almost like a thumb-print, impossible to forge...
          • "Mercurian paranoia is a parasite insect hoovering about . Nobody cares until it bites and than it is smeared into the ground by a shoe tip. "


            In debate and/or confrontation, Gemini may use the syntax, and style of the opponent . . .
            This must be done with due consideration of the risk involved - becoming one with the protagonist.

            However, "Beating them at their own game." is nice.


            If it's worth the time, and trouble, that is . . . . .



            JUST CAME OVER THE WIRE:

            The true identity of Joakim - George W. Bush.

            No one else listens to Dubya these days, so he's here to vent his spleen.
            After all it was "the Japanesers" when he was in office. Now it's "Scorps", and "Virgoans" when he's out.


            Back to the topic . . .


            If you don't mind.

    • Stu:

      Received a PM recently containing, in part, the following:

      Love youren.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method


      At common feature in the Gemini/Scorpio character, perhaps THE most prominent feature.
      Given a reasonable amount of higher development, applied within as without, granting reasoned pragmatism, and the ability to transcribe complex conceptions into their basic constituents. Language, discourse and debate are essential to the process and are therefore striven.

      With "a shitload of work" nil self-delusion, acceptance of one's limitations, and internalized (unforced) self-control may be manifest.



      Joakim:

      If the "Stu" fits; wear it. He (at least here in Tribe) fits it well.
      • Stu, is that
        really you
        or perhaps a gal
        named Peggy Sue?

        Stu, are we
        really thru
        have you other
        things to do?

        Stu, that cat
        came back changed
        and the kid
        had a lose screw...
        • I´m not mean, Stu
          I shared secrets with u
          one day the devil
          will get his due

          I´m not cruel, Stu
          you go your way
          I´ll walk mine
          nothing I can do

          I´ll be good, Stu
          not like soil so sour
          come back to me
          tell me we´re not thru-huhuu...
  • Stu
    Stu
    offline 3
    Another thought (This time O.T.)

    In Gemini sun and Scorpio moon there is a collision between the post modern and sceptical think tank,The Gemini, and the Scorpio moon instinct of deep evidential assurance before it "opens up" and away from lurking just underneath the bare minimum of emotional existence . There are measures to battle this particular existence .

    * Transcending* Thats what everybody wants to do with this setup .

    It would be an honour to read you´re experiences and methods of transcending the difficulties with this setup. Some may even not be conscious about personal ritualistic behaviour to fight against this challenging setup. But please try :-)

    * Stu :Entering anticipation mode *





    I
  • LOL
    • Stu
      Stu
      offline 3
      God, I love this. We in Europe do our scope of late night thinking while another person 7 hours apart - In his early morning bliss- Laughs out loud .

      Got to respect that feel.

      • The "murky philosopher mode" is not a twin-special. Very few, if any, do that. Twin merc speech-patterns are breezy & machine-like, very detached; airy is the word. Virgoan merc-speech patterns are more concrete, more focused & more penetrating, due to the signs origins. But still the feeling is like if some "bot" suddenly become self-aware and started posting topics & replys. Inhuman to some degree. Like frosty-voiced computers from the movies. Everything is very clear, very precise.
        • "The "murky philosopher mode" is not a twin-special. Very few, if any, do that. Twin merc speech-patterns are breezy & machine-like, very detached; airy is the word. Virgoan merc-speech patterns are more concrete, more focused & more penetrating, due to the signs origins. But still the feeling is like if some "bot" suddenly become self-aware and started posting topics & replys. Inhuman to some degree. Like frosty-voiced computers from the movies. Everything is very clear, very precise."

          I totally agree with this.
          The antidote to the worst of every sign is to be found on the opposite axis. The virtues of the opposing axis are the antidote to every sign. Take these examples Joakim mentions.
          Virgo can, at its worst, be the classic data analyst. They don't see the wood from the trees, they zero in on a detail and cannot zoom out again to see how it all fits in. At its worst virgo is SO focused on the details they have no idea about the bigger picture. An analogy might be to focus on one particular word without recognising the sentance and so not recognising the context of that sentance.
          Pisces however is the opposite to this. So with a touch of Pisces, we suddenly get the much more appreciated Virgo who can zoom in on the tiniest detail, yes, but can then zoom out again and see the bigger picture. The ability to do this allows them to have an understanding of the broader scheme of things but still zoom in and examine the details with this context achieved. Virgo can then become every bit the poet that Cancer of Pisces is. Their negative qualities like an inability to see the wood from the trees becomes irrelevant, they can see the wood, how much more powerful then they can not only see the trees as well, but zoom in and see every mite and tic that's on the tree. Virgo then becomes Virgo at its best - an holistic creature that recognises and examine how the small details affect the big picture and how it does so. In other words they see the machine (big picture) but can also understand how every small cog (detail) affects it.

          With Gemini it is similar. To be brief, at its worst, Gemini is personality-less - it is robotic, connecting things and passing on the information much like radio antenna, transimitting whatever its been told regardless of what it is. The focus becomes communicating that information (someone elses information) as easily as possible with no understanding or philosophical understanding of its relevance. With the antidote of Sag, Gemini's ability to make connections and pass on information, gets a degree of depth and philosophy added to it - the better qualities of Sag. Philosophical disparity and polarity (a geminian kind of theme) gets accentuated and you have the gem who not only can transmit information, but can understand the relevance of the information and also its philosophical framework. As Virgo can become every bit the poet that Pisces is, Gemini can become every bit the philosopher that Sag is.

          This is, in my view, the whole point of our Sun signs. We must grow and expand beyond the basics of the definitions of our sun sign to incorporate the best qualities of what might be described by the opposite sign. Once achieved the next step may well be to incorporate the signs that are found in between the two - in otherword the other mutables.

          This is just my theory.
          • I liked your description of the antidotes to the Mercury-ruled signs' frequent shortcomings, Paul. It makes so much sense that the opposite signs of both Mercury-ruled signs are Jupiter-ruled (w/Pisces' traditional ruler in there) - expanding the focus and searching for meaning in the accumulated data and details.
  • Stu
    Stu
    offline 3
    Well,

    I think the egocentric role model of an astrologer gone bad ,personalised by this ego- clown called joakim is exposed and not much more of use, really.

    Get lost.Seek help.Or whatever.



  • Stu
    Stu
    offline 3
    That reminds me :

    Of : Gemini and scorpio tantrums gone bad in public. And how bad ?
    • I wrote and congratulated "Voice of reason" for his last appearance in "the Cave"; somehow he reminded me of a white knight opposing tyranny. He wielded the Caduceus staff of Righteousness with skill & fervour. I can understand his principles, I respect that, but the Queen he got "married" to is as unsuitable to rule others as certain odd radges in "the Cave"...
      • Mantic crab wonders if the evil scepter thief will ever repent and return things that don’t belong to her.
        • Dunno who´s the worst "chief": power-lusting banshee with supervision-mania or Nero the tyrant? Nero sure got some redeeming features such as gator-charm, but his oddball dictatorship whims has transformed one of the most vital "clubs" into a empty mirage with crazed laughter ringing in the background. Stuffed scarecrows on poles instead of a proper court.
          • Web-sputtering Nero could be grumpy peevish and stir up storms from time to time, but he is honorable and dignified. If he was a pirate, he would have been a fierce one, who doesn’t betray or abandon the tattered vessel.

            If that sneaky sallow-skinned power-lusting banshee knows someone elevated her despicable place to compare her with Nero, she would laugh with excitement. The sneaky airbag scepter-abusing hag has stolen the scepter and backstabbed everyone on the way up with psychopathic giggle. She lied and got fighters to seek the holy grail for her, and when she got it, she killed them all to feed her KGB dogs. When being investigated, she erased everything, washed the blood stain off her dirty finger and started making pudding or asking people to look at some crossing rocks in her chart, sneakier and weaker than any foe encountered so far.
            • Once captain Neros ship was a proud vessel, now it´s a "flying dutchman", a cursed ghost-ship. This nutty "captain" roams around on deck impersonating different characters: he´s the navigator, the cook, the whores, the sailors & passengers. Sometimes he elects a "new" captain & pretends to have joined the sailors & wears a wig to look like that non-existing person. A sailing asylum, maybe the boats name is "Bedlam"? The captain rages when other ship passes because they ousted him when he acted like a ranting madman, he really blames them for that. His own rules are textbooks examples of injustice & tyranny; his methods could be used in education about depraved roman emperors or nazi germany. He has betrayed & soiled everything & everyone, himself included.
  • On the subject of Gemini Suns and Scorpio Moons.

    One approach that may be of interest, with any sun moon combination, is to examine the order of the signs in relation to the potential for aspects. Put simpler, can your moon 'see' the sun? Are they in signs that can make ptolemaic aspects? This is a traditional method of aspecting planets - traditionally it was sign based, these days it is degree based with orbs taken into consideration.
    Let's take the example of the Sun in Gemini.

    Gemini cannot make aspects to Taurus or to Cancer. Gemini can make a sextile to Aries and Leo.
    Gemini can square Virgo and Pisces.
    Gemini can trine Libra and Aquarius.
    Gemini can not make any aspects to Scorpio or Capricorn.

    So considering that aspect by its etymological definition refers to the ability to see something, then it appears to make a degree of sense that the Sun in Gemini cannot 'see' the Moon in scorpio.

    Just throwing that out there as it does not appear to have been mentioned yet.
    • Stu
      Stu
      offline 3
      Dissociated trines are common within 150 degrees quinqunx .

      Gemini 28,9 and scorpio 7 (me)

      That is mathematically a trine within orb.

      Should soften things up, but personally I never took dissociated trines in consideration in the interpration of a chart.



    • In other words, because Gemini Sun can 'see' Virgo, Pisces, Libra and Aquarius and (which I forgot from my list) Sagittarius, then any Moon in any of those signs will at least 'recognise' the Gemini Sun, they can see each other. It does not matter quite yet whether that aspect is considered a 'stressful' one like with the opposition or square, or whether it is considered an easy one, like with the trine and sextile, that bit can come later, for now the fact that they can see each other means that they can at least have an 'avenue' between them.

      In some ways you may extend this to other branches of astrology. In this metaphor I like to imagine the signs as having 'roads' between them. Some roads are smoother than others, like with the trine. Some roads have a speed limit which can be frustrating but you oftne learn more and take in more scenery on these slower roads - like with the squares.
      With this analogy in mind, it's no surprise that Gemini and, say, Cancer or Taurus, Scorpio or Capricorn are not known to really 'get' one another. There's no road between them - they can't see where each other is really coming from.

      But take Gemini with Virgo, Pisces, Sagittarius, Libra, Aries, Leo and Aquarius - they have a road between each other. Some of those roads are smoother than others, but at least they're there.
      You'll also find that because they can see where each other is coming from, they have things in common:
      Gemini is airy and so too is Libra and aquarius.
      Gemini is mutable and so too is Virgo, Pisces and Sagittarius.
      Gemini is 'masculine' and so is Aries and Leo.

      However Gemini is Airy, Mutable and Masculine.
      But Cancer, say is watery, cardinal and feminine - nothing in common.
      Taurus is earthy, fixed and feminine - nothing in common.
      Capricorn is earthy, cardinal and feminine - nothing in common.
      Scorpio is watery, fixed and feminine - nothing in common.

      And so going back to Gemini and Scorpio - they've nothing in common, they don't see one another.

      If you were to examine the nativity of a person and see that this disparity was causing suffering of any kind, one potential resolution would be to examine and see if any other planet is making a mutual aspect to the two.
      Let's imagine that Venus is in Pisces.

      Well Venus may well be considered to be in aspect to the Sun in Gemini by way of square, a difficult aspect, but an aspect all the same.
      Venus may well also be considered to be trine the Moon in Scorpio, an easier aspect.

      Venus may well be the bridge then that can act as agent between the sun and moon.
      • Hello Gemini Sun Scorpio Moons...

        I have read that Gemini Suns expect their partners to be mind readers...I was wondering if the Scorpio Moon enhanced or took away this feature? or if you feel that this assessment is even true at all whatever your Moon Sign?

        With communication in general do you feel that its not as easy for you because of your moon sign as opposed to other Geminis? Thanks...just wondering.
      • Paul,

        "And so going back to Gemini and Scorpio - they've nothing in common, they don't see one another."

        To extend your statement to a greater extent, could one use a right-brain/left-brain metaphor? There can be no direct communication between a Gemini Sun and a Scorpio Moon because the Sun (left-brain) has language and the Moon (right-brain) does not.

        Gemini "sees" through language. One might say Gemini IS language.
        Scorpio "sees" through imagery, and emotion esp. when the Moon is involved.

        However, those images and emotions will struggle to be made known and acted upon. Lacking an intermediary, Gemini would be faced with the challenge of putting words to that which cannot be put into words - describe the color red to someone who has never seen red.

        Enter an intermediary; in the case cited; Venus in Pisces
        "Venus may well be the bridge then that can act as agent between the sun and moon."
        Might Venus in Leo do just as well?

        Perhaps the house Pisces occupies , sans any planet, might suffice. Communication being established using the qualities and methods as indicated by the house itself.

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