One of my friends we'll call him "J" asked me a very good question the other day. He's not all that into astrology but he does know a little bit. He asked me if I could look at a chart and tell if someone is gay. I said no but then I thought about it. Are there components to someone's chart that make them homosexual?
I did research and the following are claimed to be homosexually assoiated (hard) aspects in a natal chart:
Sun/Uranus - Derek and Julia Parker
Moon/Venus - Betty Lunsted
Moon/Uranus - Derek and Julia Parker
Venus/Mars - Betty Lunsted
Venus/Saturn - Liz Greene
Venus/Uranus - Frances Sakoian & Louis Acker, Stephen Arroyo: maybe, maybe not
Venus/Neptune - Francis Sakoian & Louis Acker
Venus/Pluto - Stephen Arroyo
Mars/Uranus - Stephen Arroyo
Mars/Neptune - Stephen Arroyo, Francis Sakoian & Louis Acker
Mars/Pluto - Stephen Arroyo
Though astrologers do not agree that homosexuality can be determined by looking at a natal chart, they do agree that Uranus aspects are the most common in homosexual relationships.
I did research and the following are claimed to be homosexually assoiated (hard) aspects in a natal chart:
Sun/Uranus - Derek and Julia Parker
Moon/Venus - Betty Lunsted
Moon/Uranus - Derek and Julia Parker
Venus/Mars - Betty Lunsted
Venus/Saturn - Liz Greene
Venus/Uranus - Frances Sakoian & Louis Acker, Stephen Arroyo: maybe, maybe not
Venus/Neptune - Francis Sakoian & Louis Acker
Venus/Pluto - Stephen Arroyo
Mars/Uranus - Stephen Arroyo
Mars/Neptune - Stephen Arroyo, Francis Sakoian & Louis Acker
Mars/Pluto - Stephen Arroyo
Though astrologers do not agree that homosexuality can be determined by looking at a natal chart, they do agree that Uranus aspects are the most common in homosexual relationships.
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Re: Homosexuality
Tue, March 4, 2008 - 2:26 PM<sigh>
I don't mean to be rude, Simone'. But this is a ridiculous question. Interesting if there were actually an answer, but ridiculous nevertheless.
How about asking this question:
Are there components to someone's chart that make them heterosexual?
Thinking this way has implications that I don't like.
Kenneth -
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Re: Homosexuality
Tue, March 4, 2008 - 3:24 PMI don't think it is a ridicoulus question. But I see what you mean. I'm not being prejudice I'm just wondering. I'my trying to distingush "heterosexual" and "homosexual" charts by looking at the components that define each. don't you ever wonder (astrologically) what makes someone a jerk or a nerd? "Abnormal" or "normal"? Outgoing or introverted? Preditor or Prey? -
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Re: Homosexuality
Tue, March 4, 2008 - 4:25 PMI know you're not being prejudiced. Didn't mean to imply that. And glad you understand what I'm getting at.
I suppose I've never wondered such a thing. I even disdain astrology books that focus on romantic partners, because there are so many possibilities, combinations of influences, that it would be like asking a computer to compute to the last digit the value of pi.
Kenneth -
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Re: Homosexuality
Tue, March 4, 2008 - 4:46 PMTrue. But It can't be denied that there are patterns to charts. Certain influences that seem to hold true. That's how we get the definitions for houses, aspects, and planets in signs. Leo's are more consistantly showy than Pisces. And Scorpio has been observed to be more intense than Gemini.
Those astrology books are ment to help people make sense of things. I always found it interesting.
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 10:18 AMI still say that this way of thinking is really missing the point. I still say why not ask "Are there components to someone's chart that make them heterosexual?" or "Are there components to someone's chart that make them male/female?" or "Are there components to someone's chart that show whether someone has blue/brown eyes?"
Kenneth -
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 10:35 AMKenneth, you have hit the ball out of the park!
How about "Are there components to someone's chart that show whether someone has ingrown toenails?"
Statistically, about ten percent of the population is homosexual. That's a worldwide figure, which tends to indicate a genetic source.
No, I can't quote sources for that figure, but will research if it would resolve this query once and for all.
Edward -
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 12:49 PMLOL...thanks Edward. But, really, my point (which you expressed so...err...vividly) is that homosexuality/heterosexuality isn't a personality trait or characteristic. It's not, in itself, a barrier to be overcome. It's not a reaction to some outside stimulus.
And I don't mean to say that there is absolutely no way to determine, by looking at a natal chart, whether the subject is heterosexual, a boy, or has black hair. I just want to say that looking at a natal chart to find these things misses the point of astrology (in my opinion, that is). Isn't astrology a tool to find out what influences there are in your own life? What barriers you may need to overcome? What resources you have to succeed?
What do you say, Simone' and Edward?
Kenneth -
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 1:46 PMI am in no way saying that homosexuality is a barrier or an affliction that needs to be isolated at its sourse and overcome. I am a firm believer that homosexuality/heterosexuality is a trait that exists at birth. I don't think it is something that is learned or changeable. If my thoery is right then it should be appearent somewere in the natal chart.
Astrology is meant to help deal with problems but it is also a way to learn more about why you are the way you are. For example, I am deep because I have the moon in scorpio, I am fast because I have the sun in Aries, I am fashionable because my ascendant is Libra. My question is "Is someone gay because of this________ in a natal chart." I am not trying to devise if someone has black hair--that can be changed.
I do think that homosexuality/herterosexuality can be determined by looking at a natal chart. We just don't know what to look for yet. If astroloers made more observations on strictly homosexual men and women's natal charts and found common ground then I would say that what ever was found could be called a "homosexual factor". The reverse is also true. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 2:44 PMOkay, okay!! I will try to make my point even sharper. Then I'll leave you alone.
Why? Why, other than to say you can? What purpose would this information serve?
Kenneth -
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 8:26 AMwell in the wrong hands this information could be devistating. Remember not every one likes homosexuals and there could be an urge to predit if someone is going to be gay and then "change" them as if it can be done. Mostly I would just like to know this to satisfy my own curiosity. As a scorpio moon I like to know as must as I can. Basically, I would like to get to know people better and know what makes them tick. I would never use this kind of information to 'out' someone. -
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Unsu...
Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 9:21 AMHey, who cares who's what? It's interesting to see what whether or not someones chart says this or that about them. I think Homosexuality is more a genetic predisposition. in this one woman's family, she was one of 9 kids and five out of the 9 were homosexuals. Those are high stats! To me that's telling me that it runs in the family. I don't think anything in their charts could indicate this. I hadn't checked so I don't know, but what are the chances?
I'm not gay but I don't dislike anyone unless they give me a reason to dislike them. I look at everyone as an individual. If someone crosses me or someone I love? They've just given me a reason to cut them off and treat them as if they never existed. That's about it.
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 13, 2008 - 9:27 AM*I do think that homosexuality/heterosexuality can be determined by looking at a natal chart. We just don't know what to look for yet. If astroloers made more observations on strictly homosexual men and women's natal charts and found common ground then I would say that what ever was found could be called a "homosexual factor". The reverse is also true.*
There are NO aspects in a natal chart that points to an individual's sexual orientation!!!
A homosexual/heterosexual factor???...that is literally the most asinine thing I have ever read.
Let it go!!!
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 2:17 PMKenneth, I'll try to be direct, but this my be longer than I wish and will bring up questions which deserve a seperate topic:
Let's try a thought experiment:
Two children are born at the same time and place.
The first comes into the world via an uneducated black mother in the maternity ward of a regional prison.
The second is delivered by paramedics in the visitors reception area of the prison to a wealthy WASP Congresswoman who happened to be part of a fact-finding panel meeting with the Warden.
Does Astrology hold these to be identical twins?
Will continue later, giving what I believe Astrology DOES determine, but right now I have to pick up my youngest from daycare.
DRAT! Edward -
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 2:48 PMWow!! Now, there's a question!
To be perfectly honest, I'm not so familiar with astrology to answer this in a meaningful way.
I will answer a question with a question, though.
Is there such a thing a Cosmic Identical Twins?
Kenneth -
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 5:09 PMim with simone, in that homosexuality is there from birth. but to be honest more ppl in the world are bisexual thn either homosexual or hetrosexual 2 som extent (i mean from the extreme of sleeping with both sexes to sleeping only with the opposite sex but finding the same sex attractive and obviously there are many more instances inbetween). would the answer to simones question not be to look at the planets tht effect a persons sexual, romantic and love side? venus and so on. this is just obviously an idea, im not too clued up on astrology as it stands. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 5:18 PMoh and i forgot to mention, i found this quiz "What sex is ur brain?". obviously i dunno how legit this is however its on the BBC site so i wud imagine it wud b somwhat legit, but its a bit of fun any way.
im 50% female or 75% dependin on how u read the scale.
the link:
www.bbc.co.uk/science/hum...d_user.shtml -
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 9:49 PMI followed the link you thoughtfully provided. It IS fun.
No surprise to me, it appears I am very female, and right-brained.
Thanks!
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 5:18 PMI followed the link too. It's very interesting. I female and I have a female brain as well.
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 9:45 PMKenneth;
In the case of my thought experiment, if one child is homosexual, the other would be as well. And, as zodiacal aspects are effective for significant periods of time, so would other children born in close time and space proximity. (Or, for that matter, a few hours later, and 400 miles away.) Therefore, homosexuality should appear in clusters.
Homosexuality has been studied ad infinitum. If such clusters were occurring, they would be obvious, and would have became someone’s PhD years ago!
Astrology may guide us in many ways, but genetics trumps astrology. I have cardiac problems, inherited from my father, and other ancestors. My chart show the possible ways for me to deal with this condition, it does not identify the condition itself. Transits to my chart may have - I have not checked - a recent period of stress. I defy any astrologer to identify even in broad terms the three events which created same.
In the case of the two children, their approach to life, emotional states, times of difficulty and of advantage will be in step. Any part of their makeup determined by genetics or their environment will be different. The specific life circumstances which produce the emotional states, etc. they experience will also be different, and given the circumstances of their birth, a word apart.
Simone is correct in her approach, from her posts it’s obvious she is asking questions and seeking knowledge in many areas - a most honorable trait.
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 10:11 AMThis IS an extremely interesting question, Edward. I would be inclined to say that, certainly, these two children would lead extremely different lives and probably have fairly different characters, given the differences in their upbringings. However, I think astrology would still hold them to be identical twins and that they would share similar needs, desires, drives, etc., which would - considering their divergent circumstances - be expressed in different ways. If you cut to the core of some of their actions and interests - which easily might share little in common, from the outside - I think there might be common elements that these actions/interests branched out from.
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Re: Homosexuality
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 8:40 PM*Statistically, about ten percent of the population is homosexual. That's a worldwide figure, which tends to indicate a genetic source.*
Actually it's higher than 10%. 10% was configured in the 80's.
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Re: Homosexuality
Sun, March 16, 2008 - 2:03 AMThe 10% figure is from the Kinsey report from the 1950's. And it is obviously much higher than that. Accounting for the convservative nature of hte 1950's and the fact that generally people are not completey honest in surveys (especially when asked to disclose something that carries such a social stigma), I'd say it's MUCH much higher.
Anyway, everybody's bi. End of story. ;)
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 8:55 AMFor those interested - google "Time Twins Experiment" - it was conducted in the 1960's in the UK. They tracked the lives of over 70 groups of time twins...all people not related to one another, born in the same hospital, with no more then an hour in between their birth times. After the study they could not find an astrological consistency with personality types, career choices etc. At least nothing strong enough to support some scientific statistical proof.
And for the record ..I have Venus square Uranus and I am definitely not homosexual although it seems to be one aspect the astrologers pick out the most. For me its more along the lines of "unconventional relationships" i.e. I date weird arty types. Also a friend and my mother have venus hard aspect saturn and also hetero....
So ultimately I try to use astrology to understand what I know of my self is already true...it if reinforcement..not prediction to me. So many influences we cannot begin to understand by just looking at a 2 dimensional model. Its like trying to tell someome what a building visually looks like from looking only at the blueprint. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 10:23 AMCoors,
One Uranus aspect is not going to make you homosexual. This theory applies to people who have a lot of the listed aspects. Maybe a very dominant, Venus, Uranus, Mars, Pluto, and the 5th house. These are considered to be factors but again I have no real proof. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 5:51 PMI know what you were saying Simone...it sounds like you are interested in conducting research on the subject so I just offered a few personal examples and then just my opinion on how I view astrology....
No worries....
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 10:25 AMIt seems like this question comes up in many astrology threads - it's one that commonly interests people and consistently stirs up a lot of controversy and debate.
I can see why it's of interest, and I think phrasing it as looking for homosexuality may be what bothers somes folks - versus looking for indicators of romantic and sexual preferences of various kinds. I, personally, find it interesting to search for romantic/sexual preference indicators in charts, but agree with some posters on here that it's usually to generalized in books, etc. And, as a queer astrology nerd, I am curious if there is any indication of sexual orientation, because I am not sure that sexual orientation is 100% genetic (kill me for that if you want!). I do figure that genetics are the big factor, but I wonder if there might be an astrological symbol for these things, anyway (though I don't know what it would be).
You do hear Uranus all the time, but I think the Uranus factor might be sort of outdated and only apply to some specific types of queer relationships and individuals, since it's so frequently cited because implies unconventionality. I think that most people out there who are interested in same-sex relationships aren't doing it because of a desire for something unconventional. I don't know where the source might be, but it seems that Uranus' influence is more likely to be found in individuals who love sexual experimentation, getting involved with people very different from themselves, playing with types of relationships - maybe ones that allow more independence (possibly polyamorous relationships)... anything that stimulates their intellecutal interest in innovation. So I can see how this COULD factor into queer relationships/sex, if a person was generally drawn to trying out different things, possibly including relationships/sex with any/all genders, and wanted to broaden their horizons (sounding more Sagittarius or maybe Gemini, actually). Just some thoughts... no conclusions at all... -
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 10:31 AMHey, wait...is this a joke???
Uranus,
Uranus,
Uranus???
Just KIDDING!!! Sheesh! ;-)
Kenneth -
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 10:35 AMYour anus' influence IS probably more likely to be found in individuals who love sexual experimentation, though. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 11:06 AMOh no! Another thinker to compete with the first two (the big head, and the little head, that is).
Sorry, I can't help it. I'm silly.
Kenneth
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 5:32 PM,"personally, find it interesting to search for romantic/sexual preference indicators in charts, but agree with some posters on here that it's usually too generalized in books"
That's what I think. I'm not sure that this particular topic has been studied in depth before. But I have no idea why. We no what causes sextual attraction in a natal chart (Venus, Mars, moon, eros, 5th house, 8th house, ect,.) so why aren't we able to answer this question? I may have been to general my self in this original post because I am sure that there are plenty of straight people with the aspects listed above. I think I'll do my own personal expirement. I'll take a look at the charts of gay celebrities and friends and see if there are any obvious indications. As a matter of fact we should all do this so that we have more ground to cover and more input. If we have any gay people here I especially want to hear from you. Take a look at your own chart and tell me what you think could be a factor. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 6:53 PMHa! Okay, I'll go.
Of the aspects you mentioned at the beginning of the thread, I only have my Moon opposite Venus and my Mars conjunct Neptune. I only have one Uranus aspect (to Jupiter). My Venus is in 12th House Taurus, conjunct my Gemini Ascendant and opposite my Scorpio Moon. My Mars is in 8th House Capricorn, conjunct Neptune, trine my 12th House Taurus Sun, square my 11th House Aries Mercury, and sextile my 11th House Pisces Jupiter. My Moon is in 6th House Scorpio, (again) with that Venus aspect, trine Jupiter, and square my Aquarius Midheaven. My Eros is right on my Aquarius Midheaven, squaring my Sun, Moon, and 6th House Scorpio Pluto, and sextile my Mercury and my 7th House Sagittarius Saturn. My 5th House is empty and its cusp is in Virgo. My 8th House cusp is in Sagittarius and in it are my Capricorn Mars and Neptune. Make of that what you will! Lots of info. It's posted in my pictures, too. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Thu, March 6, 2008 - 7:21 PMWith Venus making contact to the moon (both feminine associated planets) you probably have a deep respect for females (which would explain that in past threads you mentioned you like water dominated people who seems more sympathetic and understanding). This aspect is concidered more homosexual for women than men but really the consept applies for both genders. You have Neptune and Pluto conjunct and both in the pluto driven house. Hense, sort of a pluto mars contact. Also, with Mars in capercorn you have the Mars saturn thing going on.
Uranus is in the seventh house and you may like unconventional relationships. I hardley call this a homosexual aspect but to the general public homosexuality may be considered unconventional so we must take this into account. You also have saturn in the 7th so I guess we could call this an extention of the saturn-venus combination listed above. You also have Pluto opposed to the sun. I know I didn't metion it earlier but with the pluto mars and pluto venus references maybe this could also be a factor. Also neptune trining the sun. You also have mars trining your 5th house cusp.
May I ask, are you exclusivley homosexual or bi sexual? Or maybe you are just occasionally attracted to other women. I see a heavy "homosexual" influence if everything I have just said is true. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 3:55 PMLate response, but I'm basically exclusively interested in women, both sexually and romantically. Occasionally I'll find a man attractive, but not enough to be interested in doing anything with him. I'm only a bit interested, every once in a while, on the occasions of gender ambiguities and interesting, hot het couples (I do love the energy couples give off and find it pretty attractive), but rarely go there, in actuality. I do have a deep respect for women, certainly, but I definitely enjoy the company of plenty of males, as well (though sensitive and/or feminine males are particularly welcome). -
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Re: Homosexuality
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 5:29 PMOh thank you Rothilda for your response. What do you mean you like the energy couples give off? Is it that you want to enter a relationship but are hesitant to do so? -
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Re: Homosexuality
Tue, March 11, 2008 - 12:23 AMI think I just like the appreciation some couples have for each other, or the energy I sense between them (emotions/familiarity/sexuality/whatever). It sometimes enhances how appealing each person is, to me. -
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Re: Homosexuality
Tue, March 11, 2008 - 9:53 AMJessh.. an emotional bomb thrown into the scorpio moon tribe..
Been experimenting a bit myself doing both this and that.. I came to the most confusing conclusion ever. See i am straight per see, no question about it. But at the same time in periods i feel attracted to the same sex. Wanting to be passive ( im normally more the quite opposite and beeing very dominating. In my normal life i dont feel much attraction to men, one could even say i would feel like any straight man would feel. Complete discomfort. But in the other period everything switches dramatically. I have noticed these switches occuring when the moon is very intense in the chart. Then once this influence is waning i loose interest again. Im not making this up!
It,s an argument worth taking into account. Perhaps it means that when the moon is intense that the drive increases considerably.. thus making me go for anything, but im not sure.
The asteroid eros and it,s rellation in the chart could be interesting to look at. That,s the answer i got snooping around for an answer.
Would be interesting if you actually came up with something. Perhaps the moon would be an interesting subject too, since it also plays a part in sexuality, roles, masculine, feminine, all that. However, i dont think that the sexual polaridity could be determined in the chart ( but then i really dont know enought to tell) That it has some other factor is most likely. Perhaps bio chemical. Since we dont know the exact factor causing homosexuality, yet, it,s a pretty interesting to question oneself if it,s possible to read this in astrology. However i think most of what i would say on the matter is already said. I think that the sex and sexuality is determined by cromosomes or something like that.
Im glad somone dares to be political incorect. To dare question things considered taboo. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Homosexuality
Mon, March 17, 2008 - 4:18 PMI think Pluto/Scorpio energy often deals with the pull between or simultaneous occurance of attraction and repulsion. So maybe when your Scorpio side is intensified, the discomfort you feel with the idea of attraction to men is enhanced, and, thus, the attraction portion comes out more. I don't know if that makes sense - just speculation. I, for one, think my interest in darker kink stuff (stuff that I'm always intrigued by, but a bit more wary of) is enhanced when I'm feeling Scorpionic energy more intensely. And maybe the Scorpio emphasis at different times just gives us the push to 'go there' - to go to places that we're sometimes uncomfortable with but secretly want.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Homosexuality
Wed, July 2, 2008 - 9:13 PMHenrik - Very late picking up on this earlier post:
"Jessh.. an emotional bomb thrown into the scorpio moon tribe.
Been experimenting a bit myself doing both this and that.. I came to the most confusing conclusion ever. See i am straight per see, no question about it. But at the same time in periods i feel attracted to the same sex. Wanting to be passive ( im normally more the quite opposite and beeing very dominating."
Same here, sometimes it is so tiring and frustrating to be "in control" at all times. It might be nice to, for once, to be totally passive, have no control, and enjoy the experience. To achieve same, I recommend a lusty female who can be trusted, some of that soft and pretty blue-and-white rope sold in the big box building supply stores, candles, ( incense ?), CD's to fit the mood, at least two hours to burn in the late evening, and privacy. If the trusted lust female is creative and imaginative, so much the better.
Once the rope has been put to good use, control gone, and you have (at minimum) been ridden like a ten speed in the Tour De France, you will sleep the sleep of babes, and awaken completely refreshed with a smile on your face.
Highly recommended!
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